252: Building Cultures That Drive Success, With Claire Chandler

March 2, 2023

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Dr. Pelè (00:00):

Hello, happy people. Welcome to the Profitable Happiness Podcast.

Dr. Pelè (00:07):

Hello everyone. This is Dr. Pelè with the Profitable Happiness Podcast, and it is my pleasure to introduce to you for a second time, Claire Chandler, who is an executive leadership advisor. Claire works with leaders in large companies, helping them understand how best to lead to create influence in their organizations. Claire, it is such a pleasure to have you back. How are you doing today? Oh,

Claire Chandler (00:33):

I'm doing great. It's so great to see you and to be back on your stage.

Dr. Pelè (00:36):

Oh, oh. Just, just so awesome. Now, I'm excited for a lot of the things that you are currently working on. You've, you've, uh, you've had your book out, um, the Whirlpool Effect, you're working on another one, and we'll leave that for later if you want to go there. Um, but I'm really excited for all the things that you're sharing out in the world these days. Can you maybe help us understand your context by giving us a sense of the challenges that you deal with and that you help with in the corporate and business world?

Claire Chandler (01:06):

Yeah, absolutely. Um, lately I have been working with a lot of larger complex organizations to help them, um, get their teams more in alignment with where they are trying to go as a company and as a culture. Um, and then of course, execute strategies. You know, I feel like, uh, when the pandemic hit us, everyone put a pause button on longer term strategy mm-hmm. And they're finally sort of getting through that tunnel and saying, okay, we're, we're going to grow again. We are going to envision a, a bigger, more ambitious future. Um, they're being more real realistic about that. Right. So prior to, uh, prior to the onset of covid, everyone was talking in terms of 20 year strategic plans. Yeah. And now you think about that and go, oh my gosh, how unrealistic was that to, to think we could envision a roadmap to get us from, from where we are to 20 years from now?

And I think Covid sort of woke us all up to we've gotta sort of shrink down our focus much more, um, not because we want to, um, squelch anyone's dreams, but we also know that change happens. Yeah. And pivots are going to be required. And, and at most, you can perhaps envision and set strategic objectives for five years out. Um, so I'm happy to say a lot of these companies are now, uh, looking toward the future again, with some optimism, with some ambition, with some aspiration. And so they will come to me and say, you know, we have this ambitious strategy. Um, and, and whether, you know, a lot of the organizations I deal with are on some sort of a growth journey where they have either, um, merged to legacy organizations, or they have acquired a new company where they have grown into a, a, you know, a new line of business or a new geographic location, and they are, um, having a little bit of an identity crisis, right?

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they, they want to know how to bring forth the best of what is working, um, say goodbye to the noise that is no longer serving them and bring their employees along for the ride. Um, you know, so, so a lot of that kind of shows up in terms of underperformance and, you know, everyone is is faced right now with, um, high turnover and, you know, uh, staffing shortages and inability to find and attract, um, let alone routine talent. Yeah. Um, so all of those things kind of show up into this one massive snowball of a challenge, which is, how do we grow in a more, um, predictable, sustainable way without becoming toxic or siloed work lost.

Dr. Pelè (03:45):

Wow. And, and, you know, I have to say, you just mentioned that, uh, leaders need to bring employees along for the ride. What a what? A what? A what a simple thing to say. That's not that easy, right? <laugh>, because Yeah. Because when I, when I think of some of the things you shared with me, um, I would love to hear some of the things you've personally experienced that have made you the expert you are today in helping leaders bring employees along for the right. For example, you mentioned this concept of never toned down your walk. Wow. You gotta tell us that story. Come on. All right. So,

Claire Chandler (04:20):

So as, as we probably, um, talked about it at greater length, the last time I was on your show, I am a self-professed corporate survivor. Um, so I spent the bulk of my career up until 2011 in corporate America, by the way, swearing. I was never gonna do that. I am the product of a school teacher and a small business owner. And so, you know, big corporate was not something I aspire to mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but that's where the opportunities were when I, you know, got out of college and all of that. Um, but I have to tell this story because it is so, it, it, it's so emblematic of a lot of corporate cultures Yeah. Um, that espouse, you know, this sort of brand promise of bring your entrepreneurial spirit, and we want you to be innovative and, you know, we want you to take risks and all this sort of

Dr. Pelè (05:06):

Thing, and employees are our greatest asset.

Claire Chandler (05:09):

Oh, yes. <laugh> and all of these promises. And then as soon as, you know, they come on board, they say, sign here. Okay. We're going to put all of that in a file never to be seen again, and we're going to ask you to con conform. And so this story is very emblematic of that. So about the last year that I worked in corporate, I was walking down the hall and my boss stopped me and he said, um, you need to tone down your walk word for word. This is what he said. And I started, um, what? Huh? Right. So eloquent. Right. Your, your walk. And he goes, yeah. He goes, you, your walk. He goes, you know, it's, it's really bouncy. Like it's too happy. And, you know, you have this sort of spring to your step and, and people are gonna wonder if you know something they don't.

And if you're up to something <laugh>, and I thought, okay, good tip, I'm gonna go back to my office and not, you know, heed that, that advice. But I, you know, the more I, I don't think I reflected on it in the moment other than to say that's typical of, of this person to, to sort of squelch my unique personality, but I'm going to discard it and move on. But it stayed with me. Mm. Because I think so many corporate cultures and so many people who walk around with a title of leader, um, do those sorts of things and they reinforce conformity versus the innovative behavior that they promised you would get Yeah. If you signed on to join their organization. Yeah.

Dr. Pelè (06:35):

You know, isn't it just so sad that it takes just one difficult comment like that to ruin a career, to ruin a day, a week, a year, a career? And, and, and, um, as you say, uh, leaders do need to be aware of just how powerful they are, both positive or negative. Let's go a little bit deeper into the nature of this problem that you solve in the, in the organizations that you work with. And maybe we can go deeper into how you solve those problems. Give us a sense of the, the, the A to B gap and how you close that.

Claire Chandler (07:08):

Yeah. So I, I think kind of coming back to, um, you know, one of the biggest challenges with a lot of clients or organizations that seek me out is, um, is around strategy. They want to grow. They want to combine, um, organizations. They wanna bring on the right people in the right way. Um, and so they will come to me first with, can you, you know, can you come and join us and do some strategic planning? Right. Can you, can you sort of help our team, um, map out the steps to achieving this, this five year strategy? Yeah. And when they ask me that, I say, I'm glad to as day two, but day one has to be around getting your team to trust each other on a deeper level first. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so for me, you know, part of, um, part of my experience going through corporate now, being a, a leadership advisor, uh, I formed my company Talent Boost, it'll be 10 years ago in September.

So I've been doing this now on the outside of, of corporate cultures, um, you know, for, for going on a decade. Um, but all of that experience I've now put into, uh, sort of a tried and true framework. Um, and, you know, there, there are nine total sort of phases or stages to that framework, not all of which every single company needs. Um, but I certainly don't start with the last three, which are all around strategic planning. And I think that is sort of the, you know, one of the, one of the big myths, um, of, of a lot of leaders in a lot of organizations is, well, if we have the right strategy, people will not be able to help, but, um, see their place in it and, you know, and contribute to its fulfillment. And I have found the opposite to be true. Um, if you just assign a strategy and you don't help people to connect to it on a deeply personal level, um, and then, you know, help them form more trusting relationships with not only their peers, but the people they are trying to follow mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you're gonna miss the mark. It doesn't matter how great your strategy is. It doesn't matter how meaningful your, um, your, uh, industry might be if you don't do that groundwork first mm-hmm. Of accelerating trust mm-hmm. <affirmative>, your strategy is never gonna get off the ground.

Dr. Pelè (09:17):

You know, Claire, I I, I have to ask you, uh, this question of trust <laugh>, I, I wanna l I wanna understand better how, how you may be a addressing this, because, you know, everybody, people talk about the negativity bias. We have our fears, we see people and we think a certain thing, someone told you to walk differently. I mean, just, it's, it's all over the map, right. How that shows up. Yeah. How does a leader earn trust when everybody's just a little scared

Claire Chandler (09:46):

<laugh>? Yeah. Oh my gosh, it's such a big question. And I have found through my work and through my own personal experience, and if you don't have trust and you just sort of minimize that, and you say, well, you know, trust is earned, or, um, you know, people are just gonna need to get on board because that's why we're paying them a salary,

Dr. Pelè (10:04):

We're paying them.

Claire Chandler (10:05):

These are, right, these are real confidence from real, quote unquote leaders. Right? Um, but the trust factor, the, the, the trust factor, the transparency and communication, the genuineness, the authenticity, all these different words that we hear from employees who are disengaged or at least not actively engaged, they all come back to this one five letter word, which is trust. And it's not just the, the frontline individual contributors who are complaining that trust is missing. Um, I've had conversations one-on-one with executive level leaders. It's funny because most of my clients at some point or another refer to our one-on-one conversations as therapy sessions. So I'm gonna start, you know, advertising as, as a leadership therapist, quite honestly, <laugh>. Um, because I do think that, you know, leaders, uh, have that, um, need or hunger or thirst for trust as well, not just shown to them, but how do they demonstrate that in a, in a more authentic way? These are things that leaders do struggle with, um, and they deeply care about building an environment of trust, and they struggle with how to do that in a more effective way.

Dr. Pelè (11:17):

Yeah. And, and I'm sure there, there are exercises and maybe even some learning exercise, uh, training modules that you use to do that. But that's day one. What's day two?

Claire Chandler (11:29):

So day one is all about, um, you know, working on that human connection first so that you can accelerate trust, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and if you're in a team that doesn't have trust, you're not going to go from zero to complete trust overnight. Certainly. Yeah. But you can do a lot, uh, to, to start to weave those threads more tightly. Day two then becomes about, um, if, if we focus day one on sort of deepening those human connections and reminding each other to your point Yeah. That, you know, not everyone has a negative intention. Most people in general have a positive intention. They wanna do good work, they want to achieve great things. They want to be part of something bigger than themselves. So if we do that groundwork first, then they walk in a day, two much more warmed up, much less defensive of their own turf.

Mm. And again, that comes from a positive intention, right? Yeah. Um, but this is where silos form, and this is why strategies very often don't get off the ground either, because if you don't build trust, you can't really forge a culture of collaboration. You can't really get people to let go of, or at least loosen the reigns on their personal or their vertical agenda Yeah. Or the objectives that they aren't being incentivized to, to accomplish mm-hmm. <affirmative> so that they can, you know, kind of reach across the aisle and say, how do we work together more effectively? Cuz there's no one vertical, there's no one silo in an organization that is solely responsible for achieving success. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but certainly one vertical or one silo can bring the whole house of cards down.

Dr. Pelè (13:00):

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I have to ask you, because every single thing you've said, most leaders will tell you, oh, I've heard that before, <laugh>, I, I know that I need to earn trust. And then they go right back into their boardrooms and lose all the trust with five or six new sentences that they, that they utter next.

Claire Chandler (13:22):

That's right. Why

Dr. Pelè (13:23):

Is it that it's so difficult for people to step outside of their own knowledge and into this space of the softer skills, these human connections that you're talking about? Why, why, why is it so hard?

Claire Chandler (13:36):

<laugh>? Yeah. You know, it's, it's interesting because when, like I said, when you get these executive leaders alone one-on-one, and you create an environment where they can feel less lonely and feel a little bit more vulnerable, they will admit to all of these things. They will admit that, um, it concerns them and it keeps them up at night that their people doubt their authenticity. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and here's part of the problem. When they go back into, and you just said the boardroom, you're a hundred percent right. Look at the tenure of the modern C level executive at most, A C E o, a c e o a c o O. Even we're starting to see, like chief HR officers at most are gonna spend five years in an organization. Um, you know, it it, we used to say that they have the first 18 months they have to prove their worth.

Right? They have to make some measurable impact. And that is still true. But you also look at the trajectory of their tenure, and if it takes them about, you know, anywhere from 12 to 18 months to really start to gain momentum, and then they were building out strategies that are even more conservatively five years mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they're envisioning futures that their tenure is not going to let them see. Right. So they may be there for five years maybe, but they're not going to walk in with a, with a built in, ready-to-go strategy. That's gonna take some time. Um, so I think there is this, this built in conflict between these leaders at the top levels of an organization mm-hmm. <affirmative>, who genuinely want to inspire and motivate and be authentic that butts up against this sense of urgency that they have to prove their worth very, very quickly to the board, to outside stakeholders and yes. To their employees. And it's a, it's a tightrope that most leaders struggle to walk.

Dr. Pelè (15:22):

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, I don't know if it's exactly day nine or if it's just concept nine and it's all sort of woven in, but take us from day two to the end of a process where you help these leaders sort of unwind and focus on creating high performance, uh, through positive cultures.

Claire Chandler (15:41):

Yeah. So I'll, I'll break that down into, there's, there's kind of three, I said there's nine stages. Yeah. But they're broken into really three phases. Right? Got it. Um, and all of that starts with clarity of purpose. And I know that I am speaking, you know, preaching to the choir when I bring that up, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but we, you can't pass go until, you know, why, why you were in business to begin with. Yep. Um, so if that's not already there, then we do a little bit of groundwork to, to sort of clarify that. But then the three main, um, phases of this nine part framework are awareness, acceleration, and alignment. Got it. And it has to start with awareness of self. And what I mean by that is, even though when I get people together as a group, we start with this, this sort of acceleration of trust, right.

Through developing team dynamics and, you know, understanding across the table, um, you know, who we are as, as fellow humans, but before we can even get them into that same room, we have to work on their own self-awareness. Mm-hmm. So, um, you know, so I take them through a process. I have some, some tools that kind of, uh, you know, support that conversation, but really to raise the level of self-awareness into, um, what are my fast lanes? What comes naturally to me? What am I motivated by that may be unique and different from what my peers feel rewarded or energized by how do I show up in the world and, and how do I do that in a more authentic way? So we do a lot of that groundwork kind of offline before we bring them into that day one experience as a group. Um, and that is all around raising self-awareness or awareness of self.

And then we get into the sort of that second bucket, which is how do we accelerate trust? And part of that is to say, um, you've all gone through that pre-work to kind of understand yourself a little bit better. Now we're gonna create an environment where you can be vulnerable. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there's that word again. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and, you know, share with each other. What makes you tick, what drives you, how you process the world, how you, what do you need in an interaction or a conversation to feel like you can lean into that and have that be a positive experience. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. And, and you said something earlier, simple but not easy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and it's so true. This is not rocket science. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, literally, this isn't, but so many companies and so many leaders and so many teams sprint past this and say, but, but, but there's so much we have to do and there's so much work to get done, and we have to focus on strategy. And I am telling you, if you bypass this stuff Yeah. This awareness of self and this acceleration of trust Yeah. That third piece of aligning everyone then mm-hmm. <affirmative> on where are you trying to get to, what are the steps to take and how do you work more collectively to achieve that? You're never gonna get there. You're never gonna get, and you wonder why there's conflict. You wonder why there are culture wars. You wonder why people get defensive of their own turf.

Dr. Pelè (18:32):

Yeah. You know, when I describe profitable happiness to people, I like to use, uh, asaps fable of the goose and the golden eggs, you know, where you've got the farmer focused so much on the results and outcomes, the golden eggs. Yeah. And he wants to kill the goose <laugh> the employees. Right. Kill the goose to get more eggs out. And then of course, he loses everything. And I think to your point, when they skip these steps, when they leave out the happiness and focus on the profit <laugh> Yeah. That's when the trouble comes actually to, to, to that point. You, you mentioned earlier that your historical actually, uh, story and context about never toning down your walk is a path to happiness. Maybe that's a good segue. How do you define workplace happiness and how, how do you define this path to happiness?

Claire Chandler (19:25):

You know, it's so, it's so interesting. I have a, a, a good friend of mine, um, who I worked with back in, in corporate, um, she's 10, oh my gosh, probably 15 years younger than I am. And, you know, we were, we were always talking about, um, you know, she wanted to open her own yoga studio. This was really something she wanted to do, and she was waiting for the right time. Right. It's sort of like waiting to start a family there. First of all, spoiler alert, there's never an ideal time to start having kids and trying to afford them. Right? No.

Dr. Pelè (19:59):

There isn't all the

Claire Chandler (20:01):

Stuff that goes with that <laugh>. And, you know, she reminded me, um, several years ago of something I had said to her that I had forgotten. I said, and I had said to her, do what you love and the money will follow. Mm-hmm. And, you know, a after I left corporate all those years ago, she left shortly after that. Um, and she was sort of, there were some circumstances beyond her control, which, which made her leave. Yeah.

And so it still wasn't the ideal time, but it was kind of the universe telling her, you know, you, you, you need to get out of this safe space of complacency or a comfortable job, or the devil. You know, you know, all these sayings that come out for good reason. Yeah. Um, they are red flags that maybe we're not on the path that we were really meant to be on. Um, and she, you know, took that as a sign, as a sign from the universe that rather than go and work for another corporate environment, she was gonna bite the bullet and open her her yoga studio. Well, she just announced last month, she's opening her second location. Wow. Um, she's, she is, she's living the life, you know, and being a business owner, and you know this, it's not roses and rainbows every single day.

It is hard work. Yeah. But to me, and I'm finally gonna come around to the, to to the answer of your question, when we do work, we love, that aligns with our own personal beliefs of this is what lights me up mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and it's almost, you know, you, you sort of tap into this obligation to share those, those gifts that light with the world. And when you give from a place of abundance. Yeah. You know, it's just like when you start every episode with a smile, because you can't help them but lift your spirits. It's the same thing, right? Yeah. When you walk in your own way and you walk the path that you are building, yes, of course, sometimes you're going to stumble. Sometimes you're gonna get a rock in your shoe and you're gonna have to deal with that. But if you're doing it in a way where you get to build the path and you get to invite along that journey, people who lift you up and who, who you feel good about spending time with mm-hmm. <affirmative> in, in ways that, um, you know, you can make a positive impact mm-hmm. <affirmative>, when you are authentic to your own walk and your own way, people can't help but be attracted to that type of an experience.

Dr. Pelè (22:18):

Yeah. You, you mentioned, uh, uh, that the third component of this sort of three-step approach is you call that alignment, right? Yes. Is that, um, is that sort of the, the, the, the job of leaders and maybe an executive team to bring people, connect them with the things they love to do better so that they are in alignment? Is that what you mean by alignment?

Claire Chandler (22:41):

I, I do. And you just said the key word, um, because if they focus too much on alignment, it feels very tactical. The key word that you just said is connection. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I believe that, you know, leaders who say we, we need to correct the misalignment. Um, if they focus just on alignment, this is where they, they go down the mistaken path of conformity, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if they focus on connection, um, first of all, it's a lot easier to focus on, on connecting their teams to mission and connecting people's individual passion with their jobs. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, this, this sort of, we have to fix our misalignment. It becomes this, this big thing that is very amorphous and they they know it when they're missing Yeah. But they don't know how to address it. Right? So for, for those who are pursuing alignment or who are struggling with, with the lack of it, don't focus head on on alignment, that's sort of a byproduct focus on connection. So I love that you used that word. Cause that is absolutely the key word.

Dr. Pelè (23:42):

Well, you know, I've been looking at your background there, and I just wanna grab one of those books off of the wall. For those who can't see this,

Claire Chandler (23:49):

They're not all mine. I didn't write all of those

Dr. Pelè (23:51):

Well, no, no, no. The one I wanna grab is yours. It's the Whirlpool Effect. Um, are you at liberty to not only tell us about the Whirlpool effect, but also about the new one that you kind of whispered into my ear? Yeah,

Claire Chandler (24:04):

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Dr. Pelè (24:05):

So tell us about the one you've already got out there in the world, and then we'll go to the new one.

Claire Chandler (24:08):

Sure. Happy to. So the Whirlpool Effect was the, uh, the the first book that I published, uh, back in, um, at five years ago. And so the, the cover that you see behind me is the, uh, the new release. So I literally am just this week releasing the 2023 edition. Um, and so it, the, the Whirlpool Effect is not just the title, but it's an analogy. Mm-hmm. And I may have told this story on our first episode, but I'll, but I'll tell it briefly again. So I grew up in New Jersey. The summers are very hot in humid, and I was not the kid with the pool in the backyard. My, my family, we didn't, we didn't have that, that luxury. But my very good friend who's one of my best friends still today, had the swimming pool. So of course, that's where all the neighborhood kids would gather in the summers. And invariably every afternoon, someone at some point during the day would say, Whirlpool. And we immediately knew what that meant. That

Dr. Pelè (25:02):

Means we're rushing over to the, to the neighbors house. You

Claire Chandler (25:05):

Know, we, so, like you would hear that word, and we just instantly knew that meant we would just start following each other in a circle in the

Dr. Pelè (25:12):

Pool. Oh, okay.

Claire Chandler (25:13):

And after a couple of laps, you were able to pick up your feet and there was this current that you created that you could just sort of float along.

Dr. Pelè (25:21):


Claire Chandler (25:21):

And it was called this whirl. I mean, we didn't call it Whirlpool effect, but that was the effect we created. And so when I was writing the book, I didn't start with that title, um, but I was, you know, as I was kind of formulating, you know, what are, what are the big challenges that leaders face and how can they lead in a more effective way mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know, I, I, I got to this sort of, um, idea of flow and there's a lot written about, you know, how do you get into a state of flow, both individually, but also as teams? Yeah. And so I had this flashback to this childhood memory of creating a whirlpool, and I realized that's what leadership looks like. That's what true leadership looks like. Right. Wow. You, you say a very simple message. The people in your orbit instantly attach meaning to that and can visualize what success looks like. And then they enthusiastically contribute their whole heads, hands, and hearts to achieving it. And, and, and I'm gonna come back to your phrase again. It's that simple. Yeah. But it doesn't mean it's easy. Yeah.

Dr. Pelè (26:22):

Yeah. So, so the Whirlpool effect, I love it, by the way, is it's almost like the, the physics of water and the, the actions that all the leaders and executive leaders and so on are doing forces that current to pull everybody along and increases our momentum. Is that sort of Yes. How you envision that?

Claire Chandler (26:42):

Yes. And I, that that's where, what resonated with you, because it is absolutely a pull versus a push. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. I think too many leaders try to, you know, coming back to this concept of how do we focus on our lack of alignment mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's not to focus on alignment. Cause that's a push activity. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you focus on connection, and then if you can make a deep connection for people between what they do and why that matters mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you're going to pull them closer toward what they need to do of their own volition, of their own energy and their own enthusiasm mm-hmm. <affirmative> and in their most talented fast lanes to help you achieve that, that shared mission.

Dr. Pelè (27:16):

Yep. You know, I, I always, uh, like to ask my teachers on this podcast, cuz that's what I like to attract. I like looking for people who teach me stuff. Um, so like, you know, all my other teachers, I want you to opine on how profitable happiness can be brought to organizations or it's value to organizations and why, why it's even needed. I mean, so many, I know of so many leaders who would sort of go happiness, huh? Come on, let's go deal with, with sales and, and yeah. And let's get some customers here. Whatcha are you talking about happiness? Yeah. So what's your perspective on the idea of profitable happiness?

Claire Chandler (27:56):

Uh, I, and I think I told you this the last time, uh, when, when you and I first connected, I love the term profitable happiness because I think it is far easier to visualize what that means than when we say words like engagement. Um, right. And so engagement, I think, um, has finally proven itself to be a very business critical, uh, element of your culture, right? That people who are engaged, they, they are more innovative, um, they expend more discretionary effort, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and then in turn, that translates into productivity, or excuse me, profitability for an organization. Yeah. And that's all great, but what I love about your term is it reminds us that individuals need to find that profitability as well, right? Yeah. And it's not always about salary and compensation. In fact, that is, if you do it right, that's kind of a, yes.

It's a ticket of entry. You have to be market competitive, but people will not stay with your organization, let alone contribute their full heads, hands and hearts to achieving your shared mission in ways that keep you ahead of competition if they don't feel some sort of internal reward. Yeah. Um, and then that feeds itself. Right. I, I just like your, your comment about how this sort of whirlpool effect is this physics phenomenon mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, that pulls people together and in it's the, it's the same concept. Yeah. So to me, I, you know, I I've, I've always loved that term. Uh, I love that you have coined that, and I think it is the way that individuals and organizations need to be looking at engagement, um, in its totality. Yeah. Because it, it only leads to good things if you focus on creating an environment where, where people are happy and want to be there.

Dr. Pelè (29:43):

Yeah. Couldn't agree with you more, and thank you for that. I mean, e engagement is absolutely the holy grail. We all know the big word, but happiness is serious business too, because it contributes Yeah. So powerfully, uh, toward that engagement metric. Claire, what are you most excited about right now and how can people get ahold of you, uh, to share in what you're, what you're working on right now?

Claire Chandler (30:07):

You know, I, I really, truly, genuinely enjoy what I do. I enjoy, um, working with corporate from the outside, looking in and coming in as, as more of an advisor and a thought partner and a, you know, of kind of a part-time therapist. Um, I'm continuing to do that. One of the things that I'm doing, uh, quite a bit lately is, uh, team dynamics and team strengthening retreats mm-hmm. <affirmative> to getting leadership teams together to really form those, those deeper human connections so that they can, um, you know, devise and execute their, their strategies. Um, I would be remiss though if I didn't mention the, the book that I'm working on since you did bring that up earlier, and I don't want your audience to go, wait a minute. She didn't talk about the other book, <laugh>.

Dr. Pelè (30:52):

I was gonna bring you back. Yeah.

Claire Chandler (30:53):

So, and as I, as I said to you earlier, it's literally in, in very early stages of, of formation. Um, but it's another analogy. So I've got the Whirlpool effect, and this is not a sequel per se, but I'm, but I'm sort of envisioning what the trilogy is gonna look like. So part two mm-hmm. <affirmative> is the ripple effect.

Dr. Pelè (31:12):


Claire Chandler (31:12):

Um, and the ripple effect is all around this theory that, um, the impact, you know, when you throw a a, a rock in the middle of a pond mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, if it's a small pond, it takes a very short time for those ripples to reach the shore. If it's a large lake, by the time you get to the shore, it will have dissipated and been absorbed by the volume of water. Yep. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so the, the concept of the ripple effect is the impact of a bad decision within a smaller organization or team. It's far, far greater than in a large organization because the ripples Wow. Of that, of that decision are going to reach the shore a lot faster in a small body of water versus a large one. Right.

Dr. Pelè (31:53):

That's intriguing. Yeah.

Claire Chandler (31:55):


Dr. Pelè (31:56):

No, seriously, it's, it's a little, it's, it's a little bit counterintuitive. It doesn't, it is sink. Well, smaller. Smaller, but larger. Larger, right. Yeah. But it's actually flipped, isn't it?

Claire Chandler (32:06):

Yeah. Ver very much so. So the whole concept of the book, and it's applicable to large organizations as well, because again, we're talking about how do you, um, ignite and sort of align and strengthen each of your teams so that they can not just perform at a high level individually, but then come together more cohesively. Um, so the book focuses on the 10 decisions that can make or break your business.

Dr. Pelè (32:29):

Wow. Well, not to, uh, invent another, uh, effect book, but your work sounds to me like the butterfly effect. Ooh, I love that. You, you sort of go there. You, you might do a small thing for one organization, but it just ripples and whirlpools and becomes bigger all over the place. Claire, I always learn so much and I want to thank you for being here today again. Um, how can people reach you online? What's the best way? And do you have any, uh, do you have any things to offer them if they show up that you're thinking about right now?

Claire Chandler (33:01):

Yeah, absolutely. I would love for your audience to go check out my website, which is claire chandler.net. Um, when they go there, they'll learn a little bit more about, about me. There's an opportunity to apply to work with me if they would like to do that. Um, there is, uh, information on the books that we've already talked about. Um, but also as soon as they go there, they will, uh, have an opportunity to download for free that nine step framework, uh, that we we've talked about on today's episode.

Dr. Pelè (33:28):

Absolutely. And I'll also share, uh, your LinkedIn profile. Clara, thank you so much for being a guest on the Profitable Happiness Podcast. Really appreciate it.

Claire Chandler (33:37):

Thank you. Such an honor to see you again.

Dr. Pelè (33:39):

All right.

Dr. Pelè (33:41):

Thanks for tuning in to the Profitable Happiness Podcast. For more episodes, visit dr pa.com. And remember, get happy first and success will follow.